It is currently 20 Jun 2018, 04:04
Join the free forum or login with your account and the annoying banner goes away

mud-skipper

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




 Page 1 of 2 [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2016, 13:45 

Joined: 24 Jun 2013, 09:37
Posts: 84
Hi

here's another "need help wiring" post.

I just purchased a 1980 Alumacraft and the wiring needs to be redone.

Currently, there is one battery that starts the motor and operates the accessories. It looks like all the accessories are wired directly to the battery through a switch panel on the console. It's pretty messy so I thought I'd clean things up.

I saw the attached file in another posting and I think it's close to what I want except I will be running the trolling motor separately attached to it's own battery in a bow compartment.

First I was thinking of getting a separate starting motor to just start the motor and run the accessories off of a separate motor.

Second, I want to walk through the wiring diagram to just make sure I understand it.
Correct me if I'm wrong please:

The positive wire from the bilge, live well, lights etc. goes right to the switch panel.
The negative wire from the bilge, live well, lights etc., goes to the negative bus bar which run to the accessory battery.
The accessory battery runs a black to the negative bus bar and a red to the fuse block.

I'm a bit cloudy between the connection between the switch panel and the fuse box.

Is there one red running from the switch panel to the fuse box? Or one red per accessory from the switch panel to the fuse box?

Meaning for each accessory for each switch there is a red from the accessory, to the switch to the fuse panel?

For the bow and stern light, is a red wire from both lights been joined at one switch?

Thanks for the help,

Alex


ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412191153_111926.jpg
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2016, 14:05 
User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 16:57
Posts: 1729
Location: CT
acolic wrote:
Is there one red running from the switch panel to the fuse box? Or one red per accessory from the switch panel to the fuse box?

Meaning for each accessory for each switch there is a red from the accessory, to the switch to the fuse panel?


One wire per accessory - only typically the order is Battery -> Fuse box -> Switch Panel -> accessory. You need separate fused circuits for each because different accessories require a different fuse size to protect them. A 10A fuse will be fine to guard your radio, but a fishfinder typically has a recommended fuse size of no more than 3A, put them both on the same circuit and either the radio will overdraw and blow the 3A fuse or the fishfinder won't be protected. Also, if your fuse box isn't going to be near the battery you'll want a large fuse close to the battery (<~2' away) in the line that feeds the fuse box.

acolic wrote:
For the bow and stern light, is a red wire from both lights been joined at one switch?


That would be the easiest way to do it if you want your lights to be controlled by a switch. I have post lights in both my bow and stern so I didn't bother with a switch for them and fed them both straight off the fuse block.



_________________
For Sale - Custom Hand Tied Jigs, Bladed Jigs, Custom Rods

2002 Alumacraft 1436LT w/ 1984 Mariner Tiller Converted to Remote & 55# Minn Kota Terrova 12v (removable)

1985 Bass Tracker III - restoration posting coming soon w/ 1988 Mercury 60hp 2-Stroke & 55# Minn Kota Terrova 12v shared w/ my 14'


The way people should be
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2016, 14:22 

Joined: 24 Jun 2013, 09:37
Posts: 84
Thanks that help,

A question regarding the proper use of wire colours.

Lets say I put the fuse box and negative bus bar in the battery compartment and the switch on the console.

So if I was going to wire the bilge pump the black would go directly to the negative bus bar.

Then a coloured wire would go from the bilge pump to a switch and then from the switch back to the fuse box.

If we used blue wire to indicate the bilge pump and there is one wiring harness form the accessories going to the switch how we to differentiate the two blue wires?

Solid blue from the bilge pump to the switch and blue with a white strip from the switch to the fuse box?

Or is that getting too picky?

Alex


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2016, 14:57 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2014, 14:32
Posts: 1725
Location: New England
Bilge pump +positive is usually a brown wire per BIA/ABYC standards.

Somewhere on here I posted a simple wiring harness like you're considering. Note, I bring a large 8 or 10 AWG Main run up to the helm. Grounds I put to whatever (helm or battery) is the shortest run.



_________________
#1) 1st tin rebuild, 18' Lund viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36583
#2) 25' Parker refurb from EMPTY hull http://www.classicparker.com/phpBB3/vie ... p?f=15&t=6
#3) 16' V-tin rebuild viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36465
#4 Procraft SV14
#5) 16' Starcraft entirely NEW Transom Skins viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37548
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2016, 14:58 
User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 16:57
Posts: 1729
Location: CT
Personal preference at that point but I think you're getting too picky - boat manufacturers have the luxury of having spools and spools of all different jacketed wires in every color imaginable with & without stripes etc. I try to stick to the basic aftermarket DC color configuration I picked up on playing around with car stereos: Yellow - constant power, Red - switched power & Black - ground.If I have a number of similar wires coming through the same location I just mark them with a piece of colored electrical tape to make a tag & a sharpie. Seems like there isn't nearly as much consistency with boating accessories, white/black & white/brown seem to be the most common that I've seen.


Last edited by onthewater102 on 18 Jul 2016, 15:28, edited 1 time in total.


_________________
For Sale - Custom Hand Tied Jigs, Bladed Jigs, Custom Rods

2002 Alumacraft 1436LT w/ 1984 Mariner Tiller Converted to Remote & 55# Minn Kota Terrova 12v (removable)

1985 Bass Tracker III - restoration posting coming soon w/ 1988 Mercury 60hp 2-Stroke & 55# Minn Kota Terrova 12v shared w/ my 14'


The way people should be
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2016, 15:08 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2014, 14:32
Posts: 1725
Location: New England
... just be AWARE that per USCG/BIA/ABYC wiring conventions that Yellow is the 'new' color for Grounds, replacing black, on 12 VDC circuits. Turns out boats per having fires as live-aboards would tie "all black wires together", yet they were adding AC circuits to their boats, where black is a HOT wors in an AC circuit.

On boats, I'd recommend Red for all +power, purple for +Switched Power.



_________________
#1) 1st tin rebuild, 18' Lund viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36583
#2) 25' Parker refurb from EMPTY hull http://www.classicparker.com/phpBB3/vie ... p?f=15&t=6
#3) 16' V-tin rebuild viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36465
#4 Procraft SV14
#5) 16' Starcraft entirely NEW Transom Skins viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37548
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2016, 15:29 
User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 16:57
Posts: 1729
Location: CT
^^^ buying new wire before I get to that part of my 16' restore.



_________________
For Sale - Custom Hand Tied Jigs, Bladed Jigs, Custom Rods

2002 Alumacraft 1436LT w/ 1984 Mariner Tiller Converted to Remote & 55# Minn Kota Terrova 12v (removable)

1985 Bass Tracker III - restoration posting coming soon w/ 1988 Mercury 60hp 2-Stroke & 55# Minn Kota Terrova 12v shared w/ my 14'


The way people should be
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2016, 12:57 
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2016, 23:10
Posts: 120
Location: Bellevue, WA
Lots of good advice above, just thought I'd add my two cents.

I don't know the details about your set-up, but I like to use a switch panel with integrated fuses or breakers (like this one: https://www.amazon.com/SeaSense-Switch-Panel-6-Gang/dp/B004XADSUM/ref=sr_1_9); that way your fuses or breakers are conveniently located.

acolic wrote:
For the bow and stern light, is a red wire from both lights been joined at one switch?


I think you want to run your stern light and your nav. lights on a different switch or on a specialized three position switch (an off position, one position with just one pole energized, and the third position with both poles energized). You want to be able to turn on your stern light by itself so that you can use it as an anchor light without the port and starboard lights being energized.



_________________
"Fair Winds and Following Seas."
-Brent
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2016, 15:13 

Joined: 24 Jun 2013, 09:37
Posts: 84
Hi,

thanks for the advice.

It sounds simpler to use a switch with built in fuses vs. a separate fuse block.

Which makes me wonder why people would use a separate fuse block in the first place.

Alex


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2016, 20:39 

Joined: 24 Jun 2013, 09:37
Posts: 84
So I got around to inspecting the wiring.

Each piece of equipment was separately grounded to the hull. And I noticed a wiring bundle under the switch panel. A picture is included. The switches are basic toggle switches.

So i'm thinking what I should do.

1. Run a ground from the devices to a negative bus bar.
2. Try to find 1/2 inch toggle switches that included fuse.

Any help is appreciated.


Alex


IMG_20160731_175959.jpg
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2016, 00:45 
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2016, 23:10
Posts: 120
Location: Bellevue, WA
What is pictured could be your negative bus bar; essentially, it looks like they turned that terminal block into the equivalent of a positive bus bar. You could rewire it with the negative run to the block and then jumper one side together with black wire so that you have a negative bus bar, but it's probably better to just replace it with an actual bus bar.

If you're looking to replace toggle switches, like for like, in the existing mounting holes, I'm not sure the integral fuse/breaker will work and you'll need to go with a fuse block or in-line fuses. Neither is a major issue to install or work with, I just like having the fuses, or breakers, right by the switch; if something goes wrong, it makes troubleshooting a little easier as there's no confusion about which fuse goes with which switch goes with which accessory. Were I in your position of trying to replace existing switches (I am on the boat I'm currently working on, a 1962 Lone Star that I want to look more or less original and don't want to put a new switch panel on) I would go with standard toggle switches and then just run them to a fuse block like the one linked below, which includes an integral negative bus bar.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000THQ0CQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

Alternately, if you really want to keep the fuses or breakers with the switches, you could drill corresponding holes next to the switches and install the fuse holder (like this one http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Panel-Holder/dp/B000XBB8YI/ref=sr_1) right there. Just run the power through the fuse to the switch and then to the component. The panels I referenced in my earlier post do the same thing, they're just sold as a pre-wired unit with a nice labeled face plate. It's news to me if they actually make a switch with a built in fuse.



_________________
"Fair Winds and Following Seas."
-Brent
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2016, 01:09 
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2016, 23:10
Posts: 120
Location: Bellevue, WA
Oh, and with respect to the nav and anchor lights; if you are running them on a toggle switch you need a double-pole double-throw (DPDT) switch. Run power to the input terminal of both poles, on one pole you can connect the two output terminal and run a supply line to the stern light, and on the other pole you connect only one of the output terminals to the nav lights. In my exceptional diagram below, terminals 3 and 4 are the input terminals, terminal 1 supplies power to the bow navigation light(s) in one of the switches on positions, and terminals 2 and 6 are jumpered and supply power to the stern light in both on positions.

Image

If you need a plunger style switch, like the one I am going to replace, you can buy a switch like the one linked below, which has has one output terminal energized in one "on" position and both output terminals energized in the other "on" position.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002IVE97E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00



_________________
"Fair Winds and Following Seas."
-Brent
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2016, 09:40 

Joined: 24 Jun 2013, 09:37
Posts: 84
Hi,

thanks for the feedback. You are right the wires under the instrument panel connected to the terminal block are positive.

So my plan is to replace the broken switches with something that is similar: https://www.amazon.com/Shoreline-Marine ... 4ZXGX9JZHE.

Since all the equipment which the switches will operate is under the rear casting deck my plan is to buy the negative bus bar and run the negative from those devices to the bus bar to the battery.

Then under the instrument panel buy and install the fuse panel you suggested:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TH ... ge_o06_s00

and then rewire the switches from the existing positive bus panel to the new fuse panel to the devices.

Make sense?


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2016, 13:12 
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2016, 23:10
Posts: 120
Location: Bellevue, WA
Makes sense, with a few clarifications.

1. The negative bus bar under the stern casting deck should be fine, but I would assume the bow navigation lights are not under the stern deck and would require a negative run forward. As long as you're running a negative line from the battery, you might as well run it to the negative bus bar on the fuse block in addition to the bus bar under the aft deck. It will be handy to have the negative at your control console anyway, in case you ever add any other accessories like a radio or 12-V power outlet. If you don't choose to do this, you can buy a fuse block without the negative bus bar.

2. How many different components do you plan to connect? It looks like there are 4 connections made to your existing power distribution block, in which case a 6 fuse breaker is probably adequate, but you want to keep in mind any possible future expansion. I always like to have a few more fuses than I think I will need.

3. I would not keep that existing positive "bus bar"; I'd replace it with new fuse panel. The fuse panel has a single input for power from your battery and then has fused outputs for each component; so you would wire power to the fuse panel and then run power off of the fused outputs to a switch and then to the component to be powered.

4. Make sure your wire is appropriately sized for the amperage and the distance run. There's a good chart for wire size in this recent thread: http://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39808

5. You might also want a single breaker or fuse and a power disconnect for the supply line at the battery.



_________________
"Fair Winds and Following Seas."
-Brent
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2016, 14:06 

Joined: 24 Jun 2013, 09:37
Posts: 84
Hi

perfect I'll incorporate your feedback.

Right now all I need to power is:

1. bilge pump
2. livewell pump
3. anchor / bow light
4. courtesy (white) light

I can see adding a 12v lighter socket to power an inflatable pump but not much else.

I am going to add a bow trolling motor but I was going to wire that separately to it's own battery.

Thanks


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Join the free forum or login with your account and the annoying banner goes away

Wired2fish