It is currently 17 Nov 2018, 00:55
Join the free forum or login with your account and the annoying banner goes away

Xtremeboats

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




 Page 6 of 6 [ 90 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Author Message
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 21:26 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010, 00:38
Posts: 2621
Location: Central Florida
Okay, well I guess a bit of clarification needs to happen here as well.
If your original engine manual says to run your engine on 16:1, 20:1, 24:1, 50:1, etc that is the ratio you want to run. OMC and 100:1 engines are the exception to the rule there as that was found to be not so good during off season storage and was brought back to a 50:1 mixture.


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 21:28 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
If the book says 24:1, would it hurt to try 16:1?


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 21:34 

Joined: 27 Apr 2012, 21:01
Posts: 224
Pappy wrote:
This is just the kind of "boat ramp wisdom" we need to be aware of.
The older engines can be run on the same original oil ratio (16:1) on todays oil but running them on a 50:1 mixture is killing the engine. These are plain bearings in the engine (non-roller) and old school straight soft aluminum pistons with three rings vs one pressure back and one standard ring. Tons of other changes occurred to allow engines to run successfully on a 50:1 ratio as well. Piston metallurgy (High sil pistons, semi-elliptical, etc) and fit, cooling system changes, cylinder head design changes, etc. Millions and millions were spent developing engines to run and last on lean oil mixtures.
The simplistic answer that oil is better these days never ceases to amaze me. When a guy doing this blows his engine on a lean mixture you never hear from the guy again. A bit more oil? or a blown powerhead and paddle home? Your choice.
Also, if you really knew what you were talking about as far as oils "these days" go you may realize that today's oils, protection wise, are probably not as good as the original TCW and TCWII oils which had better bright stock and additive packages. Those oils were built to protect engines internally back when the oils did not have to put up with the EPA, but EPA mandates came along and they could not meet some of the new standards so some of the "good stuff" had to go and was replaced. Engine industries had to adapt and change engines internally to be able to run successfully with these new mandates and new lubricants.
Ok. Thanks for clarifying that.. I didn't know about the plain crank bearings as I've never had a motor that old apart. Also I didn't know about the old oils being better than the new stuff.. one would assume that newer is better as oil testing and technology improve, but your EPA reasoning explains that.
Good thing I asked as I would just run everything 50:1.. and I've been a mechanic ( not small engine) for 20 years.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 23:18 

Joined: 20 Jul 2015, 11:19
Posts: 537
56 was a transitional year for using needle bearings. Some of the smaller motors were still using 16:1 and others were changed to 24:1. Many collectors believe that 10hp motor should be run at 16:1 because of the weak wrist pins.

The reality is that either mixture will work perfectly fine. Old outboard motors are very crude devices... They were designed at a time when people were not very good at following instructions....When I was a kid, my father used to judge the mix by color.... he'd just pour it in till it looked right...Gas quality could also be questionable.....nobody worried about Stabil back then.... because of that, they were engineered to perform within a very wide band of conditions. If it was me I'd just run it at 1 quart per 5 gal tank...... it's easier that way.... and the color will be near perfect...


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 18:44 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010, 00:38
Posts: 2621
Location: Central Florida
The old 7.5hp would be the only one I would continue to run a heavy mix in no matter what. Those engines would lose #1 rod if you looked at them wrong.


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 20:51 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
Think I'll do the break-in on the rebuild at 24:1 then maybe give 16:1 a try.


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 20:59 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
Speaking of rebuild, what do you use to pre-lube bearings and such during assembly? Back in my hotrod days, I used STP, but that was big bore V8s and I don't know if that is adequate and appropriate for this motor.


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 May 2018, 20:58 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
Could use some advise on this. The book says the lube needs to be something that will handle the rigors of initial startup but will dissipate and wash out quickly so the oil can take over. That's definitely not STP.

I have found a source for OEM needle bearing grease. However the book makes frequent referenc to "1000" grease which I can't find. At least not by that name anyway. Anyone have any idea what they are talking about or where to get it?


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 May 2018, 21:46 

Joined: 04 Feb 2013, 22:11
Posts: 424
macawman wrote:
Could use some advise on this. The book says the lube needs to be something that will handle the rigors of initial startup but will dissipate and wash out quickly so the oil can take over. That's definitely not STP.

I have found a source for OEM needle bearing grease. However the book makes frequent referenc to "1000" grease which I can't find. At least not by that name anyway. Anyone have any idea what they are talking about or where to get it?
Most of your auto parts places have a can of oil/lubricant that we used to use for regular and roller tappet cams. We used to use them especially for start up on the old solid lifter cams to they got lubed up even when we pre-lubed them and primed the oil pumps. It was slick as two snails getting it on in a bucket. It you aren't comfortable using a good grade of motor oil prelubing the walls and rings/pistons I would get a can of that and use it.

Disclaimer:
You may have to go to a high performance parts store, these box stores like Advance and Auto Zone most likely will look at you like you have lost your mind when you ask for it.


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 May 2018, 19:00 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010, 00:38
Posts: 2621
Location: Central Florida
Proper needle bearing grease can be ordered by any Evinrude dealer.
It does go away quickly and is best used straight from a refrigerator!
I would not worry about using a STP as it will go away faster than you think it will and be providing good lubrication while it does.
A white grease will probably do a decent job as well and stay on longer than STP will. Trick is to find one that will hold the needles while you assemble the rotating pieces, most will not. That is why I mentioned the correct grease and the fridge!


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 May 2018, 19:43 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
Thanks all.


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 May 2018, 21:47 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
The book says to use "1000" sealant to glue the crankcase halves back together again. There is no gasket at that location. Anyone know why a hi-temp silicone sealant or form-a-gasket wouldn't work just as well?


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 May 2018, 22:56 

Joined: 05 Oct 2014, 13:19
Posts: 184
macawman wrote:
The book says to use "1000" sealant to glue the crankcase halves back together again. There is no gasket at that location. Anyone know why a hi-temp silicone sealant or form-a-gasket wouldn't work just as well?


Never use silicone...after all that work and love into the motor don't screw it up with silicone. Ya need Loctite 518 or another manufacture equivalent. They are anaerobic sealants.



_________________
2 stroke every time I can
4 stroke only when I have to..I don't like boating with my lawn mower
Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2018, 11:51 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
Thanks for the advise, Sinkingfast.


Offline
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 18:46 

Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 18:32
Posts: 152
Location: Huntsville, Al.
Well, thanks to Pappy's contacts, the block is in for machine work. Oversized pistons and updated rods pins and bearings have been rounded up and new prop was ordered today. That pretty well wraps up replacement of 95% of the moving parts in the motor. Unless it is in violation of a board rule, I think I will close out this thread and start a new one when reassembly begins.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 6 of 6 [ 90 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 54 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Join the free forum or login with your account and the annoying banner goes away

Wired2fish