Solid Rivet Advice Needed

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thill
Posts: 263
Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 09:23
Location: Virginia, USA

Solid Rivet Advice Needed

Post by thill » 17 Sep 2018, 09:45

I've refurbished a number of tin boats, and in the past I've used a lot of 3/16" pop rivets. With the backing washers, they work pretty well. (But NOT so good without the washers, in my opinion) But when I want something to really be strong, I always use stainless steel bolts with nylock nuts. This has worked very well and I've never a failure with the bolts.

But the more of this work I do, the more I want to move over to solid aluminum rivets. I've re-bucked many rivets in the past using a sledge and a hammer, so making the change seems easy to do. But when I look online for materials, it gets dizzying!

Here are some questions that maybe you fellow members can help me with....

SIZE
When I go online, 3/16" solid rivets are hard to find. Most are Metric - M4, M5, M8, etc. For some reason, when I look up the 3/16", the price more than doubles. WHY??? Either way, it looks like M5 is about the right size for my 3/16" holes. Might need a 5 MM drill bit, but no big deal, really.

But that brings up a question. I see quite a number of 1/4" solid rivets, and the price is much more reasonable than 3/16. (Because they are more common, maybe?) Are 1/4" rivets stronger, as it would seem, yet still not prone to leaking? Are there any negatives to going up a size?

MATERIAL
Is there any specific type of aluminum needed for boats? All of them just say "Aluminum". I know when working on boats, the type of aluminum is important. Some is stronger, some is soft, some resists corrosion, and so on. Anything specific I should be looking for?

HEAD SHAPE
I see a lot of "round" head rivets that look strong. When you buck them, do they flatten out a bit, like the factory rivets?
I also see a few "brazier" rivets, which look more like the factory rivets. Are these the ones I should use to match?

AIR HAMMER ANVIL SIZE
I've searched here and found a number of posts showing the Northern Tool rivet anvils for an air gun. Do these 4 sizes include tips that match the heads of both M5 and 1/4" rivets? Any source of single bits, or must I buy the set?

BUCKING BLOCKS
I see a great post by Johnny (THANKS!) showing how to make a custom bucking block.
But are there any good sources of dimpled bucking blocks online for a reasonable price?


Thanks in advance for any assistance or insight you can give!

-Tony
Boats:
1998 Crestliner 1650 Fish Hawk (Current Project Boat)
1995 Princecraft 16 - "Starfish 20", Evinrude 35 HP
1997 Wellcraft 24 W/A, Evinrude 200 HP Ficht
1994 Offshore CC Bay Boat, 22' - Evinrude 115 HP
1967 Ski Barge 19 C.C, 1992 Evinrude 70 HP (Future Project Boat)

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DaleH
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Joined: 12 Dec 2014, 14:32
Location: Eastern Mass

Solid Rivet Advice Needed

Post by DaleH » 17 Sep 2018, 10:25

thill wrote:Here are some questions that maybe you fellow members can help me with....
SIZE - Buying in bulk from Jay-Cee rivets, rivets on-line, has a large inventory for great prices! I have never heard of anyone running into supply issues with 3/16" rivets.

https://www.rivetsonline.com/solid-rive ... m-rivets#1

MATERIAL - You want the 1100F alloy, to be 'softer' than the tin alloy, typically 5052 as used on the hull. Remember ... the rivets here are the intended 'sacrificial' piece, if/when something goes and needs to be replaced. As to the size, perhaps getting up into the 1/4" diameter makes the river too strong for the alloy around it? But I bet it is also a cost factor and I wouldn't bother using 1/4" one myself.

HEAD SHAPE - IMHO for tin boat use, you only want 'brazier' head rivets.

AIR HAMMER ANVIL SIZE - Here's a link to the proper tool to set brazier head riverts, using an air tool, for $10 to $13 ... at least when I posted those prices a year ago.

https://www.forum.tinboats.net/viewtopi ... =3&t=41248

BUCKING BAR - See link for this $20 bucking bar from VintageTrailer. I ordered it and had it 2-days later.

Link = https://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Bu ... ts-825.htm

NOTE - You DO NOT WANT a 'dimpled' bucking bar ... you are bucking the TAIL, not the rounded or dome Brazier head! You want a perfectly flat piece to bear up against the tail and for best results, they must be held perpendicular to each other before AND while pulling the trigger.
#1) 1st tin rebuild, 18' Lund http://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36583
#2) 25' Parker refurb from EMPTY hull http://www.classicparker.com/phpBB3/vie ... p?f=15&t=6
#3) 16' V-tin rebuild http://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36465
#4 Procraft SV14
#5) 16' Starcraft entirely NEW Transom Skins http://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37548

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thill
Posts: 263
Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 09:23
Location: Virginia, USA

Solid Rivet Advice Needed

Post by thill » 10 Nov 2018, 00:51

Dale,
Thank you so much for the information and the links. Sorry for this coming so late. Since my last post, I've been busy, and I didn't seen this until today, but I did already find the posts you linked to.

About a month ago, I got my first batch of solid rivets, and while waiting for the bucking tool, I played with them using two hammers. WOW, they are so much stronger than pop rivets! It's not even close.

As an experiment I riveted two pieces of 3/16" angle aluminum together with a pop rivet. I was able to twist and pull, and basically rip the rivet out without damaging the aluminum.

Then I did the same thing with a solid rivet. When I had a hard time even swiveling the metal around the rivet, I was already impressed. It was almost like it had been welded. But with force, I was able to swivel the pieces around, and then I tried levering them apart... No dice. I bent the aluminum up, but the rivet pretty much unaffected. Okay, NOW I was impressed.

Once I got my air gun tip, it got even better. Now I could fabricate stuff! I made a couple of braces out of aluminum stock, and with 2 rivets in each corner, the piece feels like it was TIG welded.

Wow, I wish I had listened to you guys here years ago! Pop rivets are not even close.

Again, thank you Dale and others who have been trying to steer me toward SOLID rivets for a long time!
Last edited by thill on 10 Nov 2018, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
Boats:
1998 Crestliner 1650 Fish Hawk (Current Project Boat)
1995 Princecraft 16 - "Starfish 20", Evinrude 35 HP
1997 Wellcraft 24 W/A, Evinrude 200 HP Ficht
1994 Offshore CC Bay Boat, 22' - Evinrude 115 HP
1967 Ski Barge 19 C.C, 1992 Evinrude 70 HP (Future Project Boat)

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richg99
Posts: 4879
Joined: 27 Nov 2010, 09:36
Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN

Solid Rivet Advice Needed

Post by richg99 » 10 Nov 2018, 16:14

Possible mis-type???

"Again, thank you Dale and others who have been trying to steer me toward............ pop ???...SOLID...rivets for a long time!"

User avatar
thill
Posts: 263
Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 09:23
Location: Virginia, USA

Solid Rivet Advice Needed

Post by thill » 10 Nov 2018, 19:42

Yes, that was definitely a typo. I just went back and edited.

Thanks for the heads up!
Boats:
1998 Crestliner 1650 Fish Hawk (Current Project Boat)
1995 Princecraft 16 - "Starfish 20", Evinrude 35 HP
1997 Wellcraft 24 W/A, Evinrude 200 HP Ficht
1994 Offshore CC Bay Boat, 22' - Evinrude 115 HP
1967 Ski Barge 19 C.C, 1992 Evinrude 70 HP (Future Project Boat)

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