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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2016, 11:24 
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Joined: 27 Nov 2010, 09:36
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
I've never used a FF for much more than a depth/temperature gauge.

Recently, I have been fishing areas with flooded timber. As the lakes are lower now, those trees are much nearer to the surface than before.

My question is....is the mapping software on a $500./$700 unit similar to the Helix good enough to show me, in advance, that I am entering an area with underwater trees? I know enough to go very slow once I am in the trees.

I was looking at a full-size physical map yesterday of Conroe. It was well marked as to the areas that I would be entering. Is that sort of data present on a Helix type of unit?

Even though I have been boating/fishing for most of my 77 years, obviously, this area has escaped me Any and all input and help appreciated.

richg99



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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2016, 12:02 
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 10:23
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Location: Portland, TN
richg99 wrote:

My question is....is the mapping software on a $500./$700 unit similar to the Helix good enough to show me, in advance, that I am entering an area with underwater trees? I know enough to go very slow once I am in the trees.

I was looking at a full-size physical map yesterday of Conroe. It was well marked as to the areas that I would be entering. Is that sort of data present on a Helix type of unit?


To an extent. If you have a chipped unit then possibly if the other fisherman on the lake are active with community edits. As far as using sonar or down imaging, not really. If its bow mounted, you wont know youre on a submerged tree until youre on it. If its transom mounted, of course you wont know until youre almost over it.


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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2016, 13:24 
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Joined: 17 Apr 2014, 15:39
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Location: Cullman, Alabama
I'm not talking maps but in theory you could use side imaging to scan an area before you ventured into it and possibly be able to make out the depth and height of some of the timber there. 2D sonar would not be of much help because even the widest cone diameter from the widest frequency setting will be 1:1 cone diameter to depth.



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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2016, 13:36 
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Joined: 27 Nov 2010, 09:36
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
Sure starting to sound like a GPS-equipped unit won't help ME very much.

It appears that all it will do is get me to a stump-lined shoreline ..which I have to look up FIRST on a physical map, or see while driving by.

I know a lot of guys fish deep holes and deep structure. They mark those honey holes on their units and can return to them. But, for me, 99% of what I do is fish shorelines that don't move. Probably don't catch as many fish as others, but it is what I enjoy.

Been dead reckoning my locations for many years.
richg99



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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2016, 15:41 

Joined: 20 Aug 2015, 19:33
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Subscribed... A new edition of the 5 and so on its coming out by the end of the year. I'm thinking the helix 7 si will work for me.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 10:58 
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Joined: 17 Mar 2015, 07:22
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Humminbird 360 imaging will give you what you are looking for

http://www.humminbird.com/Category/Tech ... 0-Imaging/

it is not cheap. With all the parts it is over $2000. Cool stuff thou.


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 11:23 
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
$2,000.!!!! I guess I can feel my way around the trees carefully.

My hull (1652 G3 2015 new) only cost $3,600 or so.

There is no end to what some people will pay to catch a fish, I guess. Got to love it. Keeps our US economy moving.

Thanks, richg99



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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 07:08 
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010, 20:17
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Location: E TN
Based on my experience with HB basic maps in a 788 and now a 859 on the TM, they SUCK but my 859 is ~2 y/o so they could have changed that(more detail) but I seriously doubt it as they want you to buy the map cards to have any real contour details like you are looking for.

The old school fold up paper maps will provide more detail than the basic maps on a GPS unit. The GPS units are nice in terms of being able to find the ramp when it's foggy, dark, etc. and you can mark waypoints for your honey holes. So will the paper maps & ink pen.

Lowrance offers some of their various FF's with "Insight" mapping already loaded (or they used to) which has alot more details than the HB mapping.

Probably should go to a BPS or Cabelas and look at the different models and mapping options, but you can always find a good used unit as people are always upgrading and selling off the old units with low hours on 'em.


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 10:16 
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
TNtroller...you always give good advice.

Yeah, the more I read the less I like about "built-in" maps on the HB units. Most people say they are nothing more than a green outline of a lake. As you say, that would at least allow one to find their way back to the ramp in the fog. I suspect my Navionics App in my phone will do that.

I'm in the middle of deciding if I want to put $200.00 into third party maps AND buy a new GPS /FF. Let's call that $550.00 and up.

Or, I can just buy a $100. FF/Depth/temperature unit and call it a day.

Third option is to see if the old T'Ducer that I have here will work with the 541 unit. Since I enjoy just messing about with boats, I will give the old T'ducer a try before I make any decisions.

Also, just yesterday I read that HB had a press release on 11/15 that announced a whole new line of products. That will probably bring the prices of the present units down some.

Sometimes it is good to go slow. Ha Ha richg99



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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 13:00 
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Joined: 20 Jun 2016, 23:10
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Location: Bellevue, WA
Rich,

If you were looking for a sonar that would detect submerged trees, that's going to be a tall order for an inexpensive echosounder/fish-finder. The Helix does have "side imaging," which I would refer to as pseudo side-scan. If you did some reconnaissance by driving past an area, it would give you a good idea if there were obstructions (trees, rocks, etc.) there. Side scan doesn't provide information on depth though (technically it does by looking at acoustic shadows, but it's not very accurate and you need to post process the data) and, without post processing, it will probably be difficult to get an exact location for detected obstructions. I think these are still pretty impressive for the price and they rival technology that cost hundreds of thousands just 15-years ago.

richg99 wrote:
I suspect my Navionics App in my phone will do that.


As far as using it as a chartplotter, I think you pretty much have your answer. The built in charts aren't going to be that detailed or updated. It does support Navionics Charts via an SD card slot, but, as you said, you can just use your phone app for that.

Incidentally, I did find an online viewer for Navionics Charts that might be useful to see what their coverage is for your lake before buying (http://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@14&key=%7DgnxDfilfQ). They have a pretty detailed chart of Lake Conroe, but I'm not sure where the data came from (NOAA does not have a chart for this inland lake). I know their Lake Powell chart was digitized from USGS topographic maps done prior to the filling of the reservoir, so likely the same for Lake Conroe.



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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 13:33 
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
Brent. Thank you. I checked my phone app against the scene that you referenced. Both appear to have the same data. Looks like staying with the Navionics Phone app takes care of my needs.

Just taking a ride to the boat barn to put the old/new transducer in place. I'll give it a wet test Monday. It has been a learning experience. Rich



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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 07:05 
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Location: E TN
Here's a link to Cabelas and the HB units they have a/o now:
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse/s ... _stype=GNU

They have a new 541 for $100 and then a Helix 5 DI/2d (no gps) for $250 with possible rebates on the Helix units. You can look in the Bargain Cave at Cabelas, and get some good deals but you have to be ready to use the credit card right then, they don't last long (sell out) as a general rule.

Usually a new xducer for a unit costs from $50 on up, I would just buy a new 541, use the existing power cord if possible, install the new xducer and HU, and be done with it, but since it's the holidays you could treat yourself to a early present and go for the Helix. Then use your Navionics phone app for navigation, and you can mark waypoints on it from previous experience.

GL


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 10:12 
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Joined: 27 Nov 2010, 09:36
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
Thanks, pretty interesting that you can buy a brand new 541 unit for $20.00 more than just the t'ducer.

I have the new/old t'ducer on the boat. I will drop her in the water soon and then make a decision of some kind or another. thanks again for your help and efforts.

richg99

ps.s. are you still catching all of those crappie trolling?



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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 13:50 
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Joined: 20 Sep 2014, 21:26
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Location: Omaha, NE
I live in Omaha and all we have are 200-500 ish man made reservoirs. Well stocked with a wide variety of fish, and lots of submerged structure, both natural(flooded standing timber) and man made (concrete pipes, etc). Anyways, none of these are on any GPS units or map chips. But thru the lowrance mapping system that we can submit, several guys are doing a great job at mapping the small local lakes. So it's pretty cool and within another year or so they should all be accessible for download to your unit. I have 2 lowrance elite 4hdi (now the hook series) and I love them.



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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 15:50 
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It's a great that your buddies are doing. But why are they sharing their hot spots with the world? I fully understand obstructions and reefs.



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