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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016, 16:18 

Joined: 02 May 2014, 16:56
Posts: 17
Location: Northeast
Looks like I'll be putting one or the other of the two outboards below on my Starcraft 16 foot utility:

Tohatsu MFS 30 CL
30 hp @5,750 rpm?
_ ?__compression ratio
gear ratio 2.17:1
pull start only
3 cylinders
fuel injected (no battery needed)
526cc
around 160 lbs
5 year warranty
$3,500 new

or

Yamaha F25 LMHB
25 HP @ 5,500 rpm
9.4:1 compression ratio
gear ratio 2.08:1
pull start only
2 cylinders
carb
498cc
around 175 lbs
3 year warranty
$3,200 new

I suppose if quality were the same, I'd go with the Tohatsu given efi and 3 cylinder but I really don't know anything about real world history or use of either outboard. Nor am I sure that the Tohatsu is really achieving greater hp on an apples-to-apples basis. Looks like Tohatsu has to be spun faster to achieve its hp rating. I'm totally up in the air given my ignorance of each outboard's reputation.

Any insights?


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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2016, 17:41 
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Joined: 12 Dec 2014, 14:32
Posts: 1662
Location: New England
Which Dealer is closest to you?
Some guys have 'saved' $500 only to now have to deal with a Dealer or Dealer network that is an hour or hours away, versus dealing with one minutes away. But also see below.

What is their reputation, outside of the brand?
What's their Better Business Bureau reputation? What is their word-on-the-street reputation? Sometimes purchase co$t alone, nor service cost-per-hour alone, is NOT an arbiter of the value that you will receive. I know of a local Nissan Dealer where sure, you can buy the OB cheaper somewhere else, but no one backs his motors better than he does ... including offering loaner OBs for when you may need service.

And when paying for that service, I'd rather pay $90 and get charged for 3-hours service and have it (1) fixed correctly the first time, (2) not have to go back and (3) also have them assess what else should be done then & there to have a reliable motor ... than to pay $70 an hour for 2-hours service and then have problems. This Summer my friend's V6 Mercury was showing signs of overheating, so I asked when was the impeller and thermostats last done? Owner of said OB was adamant that they were done not 2-years ago. Didn't make sense to me, so I used up one of my day's off (where I could have been fishing) to go with him over to his boat (an hour the complete other way from my own boat) only to look the OB over and pull the t-stat pocket and determine that in fact that the t-stats were corroded closed and were NOT serviced the last time that the full waterpump service was done.

Now what Dealer doesn't service BOTH items at the same time, on a large V6 OB motor used expressly in saltwater? Answer - the $70/hour one. Their excuse? "Well, you only told me to change the waterpump." Are you kidding me? An on-the-surface more expensive Merc OB service shop I would have sent him to, would have said, "Hey buddy, it's your motor, but in our experience with these motors, it is foolish to do one without the other."

A few other examples ...

I know of a local Honda Dealer who will 'not' service your OB motor is you did not buy it from him. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... I know that violates his terms of agreement with that OB maker, but what he will tell you when you go in there, say in April, is "Well, I'm really busy getting my current customer's boats ready ... so bring it back in late June or July when they're all in the water." And then IF you went back there then, he'd have another excuse why it would take him weeks to get to it and would likely tell you to come back again in the Winter. And if they ever did take the job and accept the boat ... days would be weeks and weeks would be months! This happened to a good friend of mine and he had to initiate court action to get his boat back from the Dealer ... and not only was it not done, but he paid far too much $$ for what work was allegedly done ...

In one case I had with a new-to-me used V6 OB, I resisted going to the local expert, as they were charging a good $40 more per hour than the other guys around. Well after one of the cheaper guys fooled around with it for hours - and tried to just swap out parts (I stopped him ...) and it still wasn't right, I finally broke down and brought it to the expert, luckily by water as the boat was running, just not up to full power potential. He tied it to the dock and right there - and by ear - immediately and correctly diagnosed what the problem was. A simple $40 part and 1-hour on-water-service call fee (higher rate) later ... and I was back on the water ... chagrined and humbled :oops: - but I also sure learned a valuable lesson! Which I don't mind sharing ...

Back to those OBs

If it were me the there was a good local Dealer I'd buy the Tohatsu. If I were to buy an OB tomorrow, Yamsters would easily be #3 or #4 down on my list. And yes, that Tohatsu spools up more RPMs, as that is where it develops those 5 more horsepower. No biggie, all OBs are sized/rated in such a manner like that.



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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016, 09:08 

Joined: 21 Dec 2009, 12:24
Posts: 175
Location: monroe ga
i have to agree with the above. i have owned and stillm own 2 tohatsus
i presently own the 30 hp efi pt/t tohatsu. i love it. i had a 9.8 and my friend still runs it. the efi is sweet, no carbs. the only problem i had was solved w a change of plugs. going on 4 yrs old and 140 hrs on it. pushes my 1648 mv jon 27+ mph w 2 guys. uses so little gas that i purchased a 3 gal tank. the 6 took up too much room.most independant mercury guys are at least familiar w tohatsus,. any questions ask away.


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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016, 10:30 
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Joined: 17 Apr 2014, 15:39
Posts: 478
Location: Cullman, Alabama
From your specs, the Tohatsu is lighter, has a longer warranty, has EFI, plus has an extra 5 ponies...all for just $300 more. I would choose the Tohatsu off of that hands down assuming you have a good dealer relatively close. However, if you are a Yamaha guy and/or have a really good dealer nearby and are leaning that way, I would at least use the Tohatsu advantages as a bargaining chip and try to get the Yamaha in electric start or power trim.

That 3 cyl Tohatsu 4 stroke with EFI is really appealing though. I bet it is one smooth motor.



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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016, 19:12 
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 10:16
Posts: 109
Location: Clarks Hill SC
I just sold one Tohatsu great motor and purchased a new 30 HP EFI, elec start, power tilt/trim multi-function tiller. Just started it up in the test tank by far the quietest outboard Ive owned cant wait to get her on the water. I could not resist the warranty and price. As far as dealers as long as one is within easy driving distance Im good. I dont have anyone touch my motor unless its serious trouble which I dont think I will ever have. I would not have any school kids change my oil if it was free. Been their done that left the oil plug loose.



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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2016, 22:19 

Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 22:24
Posts: 39
Location: S.W. Volusia Co., FL
I have a 30hp EFI fourstroke Merc (which is a Tohatsu) and love it. What people are saying about fuel economy is true, when I pull up to the fuel dock at the marina they laugh and ask if I want a dollars worth. We also have a great dealer in the area, that helps too.

John



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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2016, 00:08 
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Joined: 14 Aug 2016, 22:25
Posts: 1115
Location: Clayton California
Rumblejohn wrote:
I have a 30hp EFI fourstroke Merc (which is a Tohatsu) and love it. What people are saying about fuel economy is true, when I pull up to the fuel dock at the marina they laugh and ask if I want a dollars worth. We also have a great dealer in the area, that helps too.

John


Second this. Mine is a 25 HP mercury four stroke (Tohatsu). I can troll all day on a gallon of gas.



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 Post subject: Re: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2016, 10:42 

Joined: 24 Mar 2015, 19:18
Posts: 52
Because of the 5 year woranty on the Tohatsu, the extra 5 hp, and a better power to weight ratio along with more displacement i suggest Tohatsu. I was just with a guy on Monday that has that exact engine with controls and it is silent as wind.


Sent from some body of water


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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2016, 23:28 

Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 22:06
Posts: 893
Location: 72032
The yamaha is twin cylinder (parallel twin) and is STILL carbureted.

The Tohatsu is 3 cylinder inline and EFI.

How do you use your rig? Does it sit much? As we all know, fuel gets old and stale when it sits a while. On a motor that's got a carburetor, worst case you get to pull the carb and clean it. On an EFI motor, worst case, you replace 3 injectors and a fuel pump screen (or the pump itself if they don't offer the sock for it). BIG difference in pricing; and ease of maintenance. If you pay the dealer, the carb cleaning is usually under $100. 3 injectors and a pump, figure upwards of $1000 in some cases.

The Yamaha-you won't get power tilt for under $4500. PT&T is not offered on a tiller steer motor. You have to order a remote-specific motor then put the big tiller kit on it, which adds expense to an already expensive motor. I don't agree with the way they do this but I also don't have any say-so in the matter. It's cheaper and the boat is faster by using a manual tilt motor with a CMC power tilt kit. One thing that Yamaha does do, however, is to offer the long shaft motors with tilt assist, which is pretty sweet. It makes it so you can tilt it with a couple fingers. Without it, it's nearly impossible to tilt the motor while you're in the boat. Not that the motor is that heavy, it's just where the weight is-more toward the rear of the motor which makes it harder. Well, it is heavy...but it's a good one for sure, and they build their own motor exclusively instead of farming it out to Tohatsu like Merc, Nissan and others do. I think Suzuki makes their own too but I haven't been real pleased with their version of the 25hp motor. And there's not a Suzuki dealer within 100 miles of me.

Warranty. Yamaha also has 5 years, which includes the extended warranty coverage (Y.E.S.). Watch the dealers as sometimes they'll include the YES coverage as a sales bonus. Same for Tohatsu, Mercury, Nissan, Suzuki, and Evinrude (BRP). They all do the same stuff to get you to buy from them.

If you buy online, be aware that you cannot register the warranty without going to a dealer and having them do a predelivery inspection. The PDI form is required now to register the warranty. So what happens if you don't? You have no warranty. Sometimes the dealer will charge for the PDI and registration processing, so keep that in mind. I don't like it but they didn't sell the motor and they have to spend the time to do this stuff and they'll charge for it. It's usually not much, but worth checking into if you purchase online.

I have run both the Yamaha (I have one) and the Tohatsu (aka mercury, nissan). The tohatsu is tough to manually start being a 3 cylinder without a compression release. The yamaha is so easy that I never even turn around. I just reach back, grab the rope handle and pull. It is VERY easy to pull it, as if it didn't have any compression. It had a built-in compression release that works most excellent compared to the Tohatsu. Personally I like electric start but I also fully understand the cost and weight savings.

The tohatsu IS quiet. I felt like it was underpowered but it was on a different boat than I'm used to, so it's hard to say. It was on an 18' 36" shawnee river boat and achieved 16mph maximum. I liked how quiet it was but I didn't like how sluggish it felt and how hard it was to pull the rope.

I really wish Yamaha would redesign their 25hp motors with EFI and 3 cylinders, but for the last 4 or 5 years I've been hearing that they're bringing out a new one but they keep pushing it back which doesn't surprise me, but I get sick of hearing the hype and not seeing anything to back it up. I love my 25 Yammie but if there was a new one that was 3 cylinder EFI and lighter weight, I'd buy one. My boat will handle a 40hp and if the 40hp motor was lighter, like say what the 25 already weighs (180 lbs), I'd go that direction....but it's not (215lbs) and that's probably a little more weight than I want. That and they don't offer it in a short shaft with a tiller.


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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 09:33 

Joined: 21 Dec 2009, 12:24
Posts: 175
Location: monroe ga
i have to disagree about the pull start on the tohatsu.i just pull mine and it starts right up. i have elec start but pull start it at least once every trip. easy as pie.


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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 11:03 
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Joined: 17 Apr 2014, 15:39
Posts: 478
Location: Cullman, Alabama
How long would an EFI motor have to sit unused for it to ruin the injectors? I never considered that.



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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 17:30 

Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 22:06
Posts: 893
Location: 72032
I was comparing mine to the Merc 25 that I used. The Yamaha is so much easier to pull the rope. Neither is "that" hard, just the yamaha is really really easy-easier than a weed eater by far.

How long does it have to sit? How long does gas have to sit to plug a carburetor? :wink:


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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 21:24 

Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 15:19
Posts: 112
Some times not more than a couple of weeks. It killed a carb on my honda 2 cylinder riding mower in 2 to 3 weeks. Had to put a fuel cut off valve and run it dry so that would not happen again.


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 Post subject: Tohatsu or Yamaha
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2016, 10:18 
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Joined: 17 Apr 2014, 15:39
Posts: 478
Location: Cullman, Alabama
I guess I am not familiar with the fuel problems most have then. I always use ethanol free gas in all of my motors aside from my vehicles. And I always add Seafoam. I have never had a carb gum up on my even after sitting for months.



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