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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2016, 08:33 
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Joined: 27 Nov 2010, 09:36
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
Guess I am confused (what's new)???

Are we talking FUEL tanks that reside on a boat?? or....are we talking portable fuel can/canisters/tanks that we use to fill our boat's fuel tanks?

I have NO experience with the new fuel cans (as I call them).

I do have experience with a new fuel TANK that stays on my boat. I added the specified fuel demand valve ( http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/prod ... mand-valve ) and I have had no issues since installation.

Now, the tank stays blown up like a balloon, and takes up an extra inch of space...but..it works just fine.

??? richg99



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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2016, 09:31 

Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 12:14
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Location: Algonquin Il
The original post is about new EPA gas tanks on our boats. The thread has drifted a little to include new EPA gas cans for mowers ect ect.



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PostPosted: 08 Aug 2016, 06:35 

Joined: 29 Dec 2011, 17:29
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Basically both are crap.


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PostPosted: 08 Aug 2016, 09:06 
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Location: Henniker, NH
Best thing I ever did was buy a portable fuel transfer tank. It seems expensive until you add up all the little tanks you have bought over the years.



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PostPosted: 08 Aug 2016, 11:17 
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Joined: 15 May 2010, 00:38
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Location: Central Florida
Ictalurus wrote:
DaleH wrote:
gr8fullfred wrote:
... have no idea what the government was thinking here, but I wish they would stop helping me!

... wait until Billary helps :shock: you out ... like when she takes your guns away #-o



The govt didn't build the tanks goofballs, if the private side could build a decent tank that met fed regulations we'd be fine.


Maybe not but, they set the mandatory guidelines on how tanks and fuel lines must vent and how much can permeate through into the atmosphere. The changes cost all of us millions and millions to re-design and produce. Consumers now pay a ton more as well.....for less than adequate products. And all of these guidelines for an industry that uses way less than 1/10 of 1% of the total fuel used in the US. That's your Government at work for you. This next election can change your life....choose wisely!
Can they build an adequate tank? You bet they can....but you wouldn't want to pay what it would cost to do it.


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PostPosted: 08 Aug 2016, 23:48 

Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 22:06
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Location: 72032
Quote:

The govt didn't build the tanks goofballs, if the private side could build a decent tank that met fed regulations we'd be fine.


Maybe not but, they set the mandatory guidelines on how tanks and fuel lines must vent and how much can permeate through into the atmosphere. The changes cost all of us millions and millions to re-design and produce. Consumers now pay a ton more as well.....for less than adequate products. And all of these guidelines for an industry that uses way less than 1/10 of 1% of the total fuel used in the US. That's your Government at work for you. This next election can change your life....choose wisely!
Can they build an adequate tank? You bet they can....but you wouldn't want to pay what it would cost to do it.
[/quote]

This is correct. I had worked alongside some of the engineers (briefly...couldn't stand it) in a UTV factory. One of the very many things I learned was about government mandates and what they really cost. For instance, the fuel lines were required to be low-permeation design. Engine could not vent the crankcase to the atmosphere. On that subject, they had a diesel version as well, and diesels carried the exact same crankcase vent issue. Problem is, with a diesel, it will run on it's own oil, and shutting the fuel off has zero effect. BIG safety issue in a rollover accident. The exhaust emissions (noise and chemical both) had to meet certain guidelines. The tires and brakes had government mandates that had to be met. The payload capacity dictated how it was built; for instance, in the state of California if the cargo capacity is 1000 lbs or higher, it is considered a pickup truck, and will be subject to even more regulation. So on and so forth with all the mandates, regulations, laws, and rules. All this stuff costs. One unit was designed, and passed the engineers' inspections, then it had to be trailered to an inspection facility, rigorous inspections made, etc. All told, the inspection process cost around $10,000. If they sold 10,000 units, that adds $1 per unit, plus whatever the build cost increase was for whatever new regulation was imposed.



Then learned something interesting about lawn mowers a while back. A certain manufacturer was building mowers, but buying the engines from Cat (perkins). We all know that diesels are required to have a soot filter system if they're over 25 hp. Both of this manufacturer's diesel mowers were over 25 hp (one was 26, the other 35 IIRC). They looked into the cost of retrofitting. It would have added almost 150 lbs to the weight and more importantly, about $5500 to the build cost. They stopped production needless to say, they're all gas now. And I don't blame them. If I didn't already have a diesel, I wouldn't own one either...expensive in EVERY aspect, not just the engine either. The whole truck.

Back to gas tanks, yes you can thank your good old government for the price hike in tanks...since they all have to be low permeation material, and they swell up now. How do y'all feel about those ventless fuel cans? Aren't those the greatest design ever?


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2016, 00:03 
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Joined: 27 Nov 2010, 09:36
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
It is what happens when the government (any government) tries to take over by regulating all sorts of things that they know little or nothing about.

I guess they never heard the phrase "unintended consequences".

It is also amazing that capitalism has been as successful as it has, given all of the illogical rules and regs that they have to follow.

We are on a downward-path and we better get some common sense into Washington soon.

richg99



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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2016, 00:21 
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AMEN Brother!
The idiots in DC just pass the mandates and then, for them, it is a done deal. They assume they (and they alone) have fixed the issue "for the people".
They never go back and look at the trickle down effect.
The EPA has grown almost exponentially. They are at the point they are trying to justify their existence and bulk.
One of the candidates wants even larger government (on top of your guns) and the other wants to shrink it and get a bit closer to when the Govt. worked for the people. One wants to increase taxes to take in an additional 1.4 TRILLION dollars. The other wants to reduce taxes on the middle class. 'Nuff said.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2016, 10:58 
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Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 16:57
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Location: CT
Poor Pappy - he actually believes anything either of them say. :---)



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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2016, 12:54 

Joined: 22 Sep 2015, 12:17
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FWIW, and I just remembered this, but instead of installing one of those little yellow pop vents you can instead use a valve stem and remove the core pop it into a drilled hole. Just keep track of the cap.


Dat good idea!


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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2016, 11:02 
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Joined: 17 Apr 2014, 15:39
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Location: Cullman, Alabama
wmk0002 wrote:
I have a Cabela's 5 minutes from my office so I swung by over lunch. I ended up grabbing a 3 gallon Attwood tank that had a built in gauge for $50. I previously had a 6 gallon but it was overkill for my 9.9/15 hp motors. I think my old one was also Attwood so hopefully the old vent cap will fit. If not I will make my own vent.

FWIW, and I just remembered this, but instead of installing one of those little yellow pop vents you can instead use a valve stem and remove the core pop it into a drilled hole. Just keep track of the cap.


So....bumping to update on my tank I purchased. Flat out turrble. I've had it a month and a half and the cap no longer seals it when it closed until it clicks....leaks everywhere there when I pick it up to carry it. It's also leaking around the gauge and fuel outlet port. And of course the engine starves if the cap isn't loosened (as expected).

I was fully expecting to have to loosen the cap and that didn't bother me. Not being able to carry it without it leaking everywhere is unacceptable though. Thankfully I kept my receipt. Not sure if Cabelas would accept a return on a used gas tank so I contacted Attwood directly. I will post back with how they offer to handle it.



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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2016, 22:37 
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Joined: 04 Aug 2014, 17:24
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Location: Northwest Indiana
Twenty years or so ago I bought a new plastic fuel tank.
That thing would blow up like a balloon. :shock:
I now buy used steel tanks and hoard them.
No problem.

Steve A W





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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2016, 04:55 

Joined: 24 Mar 2015, 19:18
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Location: Florida
I replaced my old 10 gal tank this year with a new Moeller. I reused the vented cap off the old tank.



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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2016, 08:44 
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Joined: 01 Sep 2016, 11:06
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Now, I have a 6 gal. tank I don't know if I want t part with. I am selling my old boat and it will go with it. It's oval shaped with ears on both ends to wrap the fuel line around. It has the vented cap that you unscrew the little button on top. Maybe I should get a new tank for the old boat and keep the old tank for myself...even though I don't need a 6 gal. tank anymore. Only using it for a kicker motor I mounted on my new boat. ???



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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2016, 12:49 
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Joined: 27 Nov 2010, 09:36
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Location: Houston, TX & Crossville, TN
Let me say this about the new fuel tanks (used inside of a boat, not the one that you carry around)...I put a new 6 gallon on my 1652 G3.

I had to buy a "fuel demand valve" to make it work correctly. Once I had those two devices (cost around $70.00 or so, as I remember) it works perfectly fine.

If you go and buy the new guy a new tank, expect that is about the money that you will spend. If you skip the "fuel demand valve" you take a big chance of constantly flooding the engine. I've read about "fuel locked" engines but know nothing about that malady, other than the "fuel demand valve' prevents it.

Your call. This post was just to give you some details. richg99



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