It is currently 24 Oct 2018, 01:33
Join the free forum or login with your account and the annoying banner goes away

Fiberglasssupplydepot

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




 Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2016, 15:25 

Joined: 20 Jul 2016, 20:20
Posts: 9
Bak again with another question. I'll be fishing about 50% very near inshore saltwater/50% freshwater lakes and will be buying a 12 or 14 ft aluminum boat, most likely used. With repsenct to durability, would it be a mistake to buy a riveted Lund instead of a welded Klamath, Gregor, Western, etc.?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2016, 16:53 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2014, 19:52
Posts: 3193
Location: Central FLORIDA - The Sunshine State -
Personally, I have never had a welded boat.
I currently have two 1959 14ft riveted tin boats
and on both, all the rivets are sound and solid.
I have seen some that leak like a rotten orange.
It just depends on how the previous owners used and abused them.
when you start looking seriously for your boat,
that is when you go over any prospective purchase
with all this on your check-off list

Loose rivets
Loose seams
cracked welds
stress points - like transom brackets
yada yada yada

very long list of "what to look for" in the boat line



_________________
http://www.tinboats.net/how-to-build-a-transom/
http://www.tinboats.net/varnish-vs-polyurethane/
All about Primers = http://www.tinboats.net/primer-and-paint-basics/
Paint, Thinners and Applications = http://www.paintingforpainters.com/

1959 Crestliner Commodore 14'
1959 Lone Star Malibu 14'
1958 Johnson 35 RDE-19 Sea Horse
1958 Johnson 35 RDS-20 Super Sea Horse
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2016, 22:25 

Joined: 20 Jul 2016, 20:20
Posts: 9
How about riveted boats in saltwater?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2016, 22:27 
User avatar

Joined: 17 Oct 2008, 12:54
Posts: 146
Location: Riverside, CA- Topock AZ
Ill take a welded boat over a riveted boat any day, I hear people say airplanes are riveted,,, all can say a plane doesn't take the beating a boat does,,, also when is the last time you seen a new riveted ship ,,,, must be a west coaster talk n western, klamath, gregor, have a western and a gregor, the gregor is a solid boat the western not so much, also have a riveted Valco that leaks like a sieve,,, know the Klamath is a fine boat also,,,, western boats are no longer in biz,,,, also might be a bit bias seeing I own a weld shop



_________________
"YoBud"--------Dale Miller
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2016, 23:23 

Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 22:06
Posts: 963
Location: 72032
I've owned operated both welded and riveted.

I'll take a welded boat any day over a riveted boat!!! And for a BUNCH of reasons.

Welded-it's usually thicker material (harder to weld tin foil). Welded boat doesn't have any space between the rivets and the rivet holes to corrode via salt water. In rough water, riveted boats have been known to loosen the rivets. Then you see the front of the boat flexing while you're in the back running the tiller steered motor. They loosen up and then the holes become oblong if left alone for any length of time. Bucking the loose ones helps but if the holes are oblong, it's only temporary. At least that's been my experience.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 06:55 

Joined: 25 Apr 2008, 16:54
Posts: 2052
Location: North Charleston S.C.
I would pick a welded over a riveted as long as Weldbilt didn't weld it. I would not trust their weld at all after seeing a post on this site about their welds and customer service after their welds failed. You would have to pay me to take their boat.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 07:10 
User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2016, 13:20
Posts: 590
Location: Dearborn, Manton Michigan
also remember a riveted boat also has about 400 holes in it lol

I had a welded Crestliner, it was a great boat

either construction method is fine as long as its done correclty



_________________
my build 1976 14ft Meyers V hull

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=40127
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 08:19 

Joined: 17 Apr 2016, 19:24
Posts: 115
My 1968 Mirrocraft with rivets started out on a lake in New Hampshire. Then I bought it cheap, cleaned and repaired as needed and it took me 8 miles into the Atlantic around islands and bays. I dragged it to Florida where hurricane Ivan ripped it off the tie downs and dropped it in a parking lot. It went right back in the water until last year when I started a major overhaul of painting and new trailer, less than 40 rivets needed and it still didn't leak. In WW2 welded Liberty ships broke in half before they got across the Atlantic but riveted ships held up even though old and rusted. The real answer to your question is educate yourself, inspect, and make it fun doing the work. That is a win win.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 09:49 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2014, 19:52
Posts: 3193
Location: Central FLORIDA - The Sunshine State -
LOL I was stationed on one of those pre-WWII Destroyer Escorts that had
a LOT of 1" rivets all over the place. It was not uncommon to be out on
deck at night standing watch and all is dead quiet and you hear this loud
POP of a deck rivet busting loose and heading skyward at the speed of
a .45cal slug and you hold your breath waiting for its return to earth - - - very unnerving.
Sometimes you could hear it hit the deck in the vicinity of where it was launched
or in the water . . . . most of the time, you never heard it come back at all.
If it was found, it was given to the Ship's Captain to put in his collection.
Then came the all welded aluminum hulls of the Spruance Class Destroyers that
led the way into the 21st Century of Stealth and Versatility.

but, I think I still prefer the Old School look of a riveted boat
just for the sake of cosmetics - it just simply looks so cool.






.



_________________
http://www.tinboats.net/how-to-build-a-transom/
http://www.tinboats.net/varnish-vs-polyurethane/
All about Primers = http://www.tinboats.net/primer-and-paint-basics/
Paint, Thinners and Applications = http://www.paintingforpainters.com/

1959 Crestliner Commodore 14'
1959 Lone Star Malibu 14'
1958 Johnson 35 RDE-19 Sea Horse
1958 Johnson 35 RDS-20 Super Sea Horse
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 09:59 
User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2016, 13:20
Posts: 590
Location: Dearborn, Manton Michigan
actually the great thing about a rivet boat is its relatively easy to fix vs a cracked weld



_________________
my build 1976 14ft Meyers V hull

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=40127
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 10:08 

Joined: 30 Jan 2016, 11:00
Posts: 66
Location: Central Florida
Depends on application.

For mine, I have a longtail Swamp Runner for running skinny and vegetated water. I have had it on 2 different riveted hulls and I've had to have them welded 3 times since January.

Of course, the danger of running skinny water is hitting things while on plane, same with vegetated stuff, can't see what's under it.

My next hull will be a welded boat, if for nothing else than to have a thicker and harder to crack hull.

Point worth mentioned is all of the cracks in my hulls have been in the strakes, no holes punched through or anything.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 12:32 
Donor
User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2014, 14:32
Posts: 2008
Location: Eastern Mass
sunshine wrote:
Depends on application.

My next hull will be a welded boat ... all of the cracks in my hulls have been in the strakes, no holes punched through or anything.

I think application is key too, as I'm on saltwater where it is "more often than not" to have a slight chop, due to the winds and currents, as well as big boat wakes and ocean waves.

Sure, some of us w/ tin boats may need to tighten them up here & there over the course of their lifetime, but the welded hulls I see - just at my boat club dock alone - have cracks along the gunnels or seat or superstructure supports, always about 1/3rd of the way back from the bow.

This is where the stresses congregate when V-hulls hit waves at speed. For our use, riveted boats flex and 'move' more than do welded hulls - which crack.



_________________
#1) 1st tin rebuild, 18' Lund viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36583
#2) 25' Parker refurb from EMPTY hull http://www.classicparker.com/phpBB3/vie ... p?f=15&t=6
#3) 16' V-tin rebuild viewtopic.php?f=21&t=36465
#4 Procraft SV14
#5) 16' Starcraft entirely NEW Transom Skins viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37548
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 13:59 
User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 16:57
Posts: 1897
Location: CT
I sought out a riveted 1648 hull to save on weight due to my wife's subaru having a towing capacity of ~2400 lbs. I was trying to keep the boat at 1/2 the rated capacity of our weakest vehicle. Granted, that weight savings comes at the cost of a thinner skin, but in the lakes it will see use on that shouldn't be an issue. Any of the fast moving rivers around here are too bouldery for even the best equipped jet boats to survive, so durability isn't really a factor.

Being able to fix an issue with tooling I already have is a bit plus in favor of the riveted hull as well.



_________________
I have a marriage license and a fishing license, but I only carry one in my wallet.


For Sale - Custom Hand Tied Jigs, Bladed Jigs,Custom Rods

2002 Alumacraft 1436LT w/ 1984 Mariner Tiller Converted to Remote & 55# Minn Kota Terrova 12v (removable)

1985 Bass Tracker III - Restoration w/ 1988 Mercury 60hp
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Riveted vs. welded
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2016, 23:43 

Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 22:06
Posts: 963
Location: 72032
A riveted boat doesn't stay together well in conditions like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBbRz7E_OE4

Speaking from experience. I live in an area where these hunting areas are like this, and this is why welded boats are the ONLY way to go, especially if you're rough on them like Freddy is. I frequent a local lake (fishing only) that is FULL of submerged trees, stumps, logs, a few rocks, mud, etc. Those are another reason I won't own another riveted boat unless it's cheap. It's all I had in the past. And I fought leaky rivets, seemed like constantly. Most of the time there is no way to avoid hitting a stump or two, even idling around. They are many times a few inches under the surface the the water is murky, so you cannot see them, but you sure can feel 'em. Really a potentially dangerous situation; most that fish the lake frequently know to go slow. Always a new guy in an expensive bass boat trying to run a boat trail at 30+ mph and it's not uncommon to hear the tell-tale sound of an outboard out of the water, when they hit a stump or tree or log.

Another plus to a welded boat (at least a good one) is resale value. Much high than a riveted boat; generally speaking. Especially in this area. A 1542 riveted hull is really lucky to fetch $800. A 1542 welded hull, hard to find one under $2000. Supply and demand. Everyone wants welded. Could be just this area, because of the types of waters we have and the hunting in flooded timber being so popular.

MIG welds. Many of the cheaper boats are all MIG welded because it's faster than TIG welding. But, MIG/spoolgun with aluminum isn't the best option. 2 reasons. One, it's a little harder to get a GOOD weldment, and two, it's fast (cheap), just sticking two metals together is all it's doing. A TIG weld on the other hand is much slower process and for that reason, generally speaking, the weld is of much better quality both from a structural standpoint and a cosmetic standpoint. One neat thing about TIG process is that if for some reason a weld is not quite right, it can sometimes be "fixed" pretty easy, where a MIG weld would need to be sanded/ground and then re-welded. Some of the weldbilt's are fully MIG welded. Most of the War Eagle's are tig'd structurally and then some of the non-structural stuff is mig'd. Then I've also seen some other brands that were FULLY TIG welded, they're expensive but you don't ever have to worry about 'em.

Weld cracking is mostly due to flex. Aluminum will flex some but it doesn't like to flex a lot before it cracks or breaks. I've seen WAY more cracked transoms on riveted boats than on welded boats. Probably a 50:1 ratio if I had to guess. One reason I am guessing is that welded boats are thicker material, therefore they flex a LOT less. The ones I had (riveted boats) were always cracked somewhere. But they were always made out of tin foil, like .063" maybe thinner (never measured). And I would sand/grind and re-weld them as needed. And buck the loose rivets which was a yearly project it seemed like. I am averaging 30-50 hours a year boating time, so I'm not out all the time but I don't sit around the house either. Actually before I bought the war eagle, it was not bothersome to have a gallon or two of water in the boat after fishing for 4 hours. I considered it normal for a riveted boat. When I got the new one, it didn't leak a single drop. The second outing with it, I purposely stayed out from daylight until dusk to see how much water it took on. Not a single drop. It felt weird.

I had bought only 2 brand new hulls in my lifetime. One was an Alumacraft 1542, the other my current war eagle. The first outing in the alumacraft (riveted), I run it up on a stump at idle speed, so under 2 mph (9.9 evinrude). Did a great job of putting a nice dent in the bottom of the boat, which I had to beat out when I got home. Thin material. Have hit these obstacles with the current boat a thousand times probably in the 4 years I've had it, and there is not a single dent in the bottom. Not one. .100" material. A few scratches, yes, mostly from concrete ramp damage from launching myself and no dock to tie up to, but no dents at all.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 87 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Join the free forum or login with your account and the annoying banner goes away

cron
Xtremeboats