*****HOW MUCH FOAM DO I NEED*****

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bassboy1
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*****HOW MUCH FOAM DO I NEED*****

Post by bassboy1 » 01 Mar 2013, 12:48

fiberglass wrote:No matter what foam you use it if it stays wet long enough it will soak up the water.
Let's echo this point one more time, as it is commonly misunderstood. Just because a foam is closed cell does not mean it won't soak up water. It most definitely will.

txnman69
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*****HOW MUCH FOAM DO I NEED*****

Post by txnman69 » 01 Mar 2013, 22:34

Thank you fiberglass for your input , any is GREATLY appreciated not only by my self but all im sure :D

apsauce
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*****HOW MUCH FOAM DO I NEED*****

Post by apsauce » 03 Mar 2013, 22:33

Anyone else completely confused?? Maybe its just me lol but this whole foam thing has me in a headlock. Getting ready to mod my 12 ft 66 murry jon and this foam situation has smoke coming outta my ears lol.

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MiPikeGuy
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Post by MiPikeGuy » 06 Jul 2013, 03:50

apsauce » 03 Mar 2013, 22:33 wrote:Anyone else completely confused?? Maybe its just me lol but this whole foam thing has me in a headlock. Getting ready to mod my 12 ft 66 murry jon and this foam situation has smoke coming outta my ears lol.
I'm also confused, so you're not alone.
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txnman69
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*****HOW MUCH FOAM DO I NEED*****

Post by txnman69 » 08 Jul 2013, 22:15

hey guys, I modified my benches (14ft alumiline I think) made carpeted 3 piece bench tops and cut out the center section of the bench top and removed the foam (still leaving foam on both sides), the center sections of the benches lift up (on a piano hinge) , the front bench is small storage (extra glasses, scale, small baits...etc, ) the center bench contains my battery for trolling motor and fish finder, and the rear bench contains lifejackets,
I did replace all the foam during this process with new foam as the old foam was less than useless. My fishin buddy(not a small guy ) and I have encountered some scary waves for a boat like mine and came out ok ( gotta steer into it before hand !).
I haven't taken pics to post on here but will if it will give some help to those wanting to do the same type of thing.
hope this helps guys

kfa4303
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Post by kfa4303 » 23 Sep 2013, 10:10

Also, not all "foams" are equal, or to be used in a boat. For marine applications, you only want to use closed-cell foam, but NEVER white styrofoam, which is what most older boats were made with unfortunately. The older foams used can/do soak up tons of water which sort of defeats its purpose. Most DIY folks use the 1" thick pink/blue insulation foam panels from Lowes/HD which works very well and can be removed in the future, unlike spray-in foams that expand when applied and can actually damage the hull and are a PITA to remove should you ever need to repair the hull in the future. Any holes in the hull should be properly sealed by welding them, or filling them with epoxy.

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FerrisBueller
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Post by FerrisBueller » 23 Sep 2013, 10:23

Plain and simple, buy the 1" or so foam sheets from HD or Lowes and cut it to fit.

The foam is there to stop your boat from sinking to the bottom once you have already capsized or taken on too much water to bail out.

I think at that point you have more issues to worry about than what foam you used, in my opinion.

If you take it out when modifying, try your best to replace it somewhere as much as possible, under flooring is a common spot. Probably more times that not we take out more than we put back, but I think there's some wiggle room, and more importantly we need to make sure we don't put ourselves in situations that would put the foam to the test.
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thill
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Post by thill » 24 Feb 2014, 05:56

If you have ever been caught in a sudden squall and have your aluminum boat get swamped (as I have) you will find that it is a terrifying experience. I grew up in the water, and am a surfer, and am not afraid of water in any way, but it was still terrifying.

This happened on a lake, under sunny blue skies. Suddenly, the wind started howling, and we headed back immediately. As we neared the shore, the waves bouncing off the seawalls made for a confused sea, maybe 4' high, and VERY close together. One, two three, and we were underwater. Just like that.

It happens so fast that it's hard to describe, but three quick waves, and the boat was down. Fortunately, there was enough foam in the boat that the nose of it stayed up, and we lost all gear, but were able to retrieve the boat. We survived that crazy washing machine, but it was scary.

My recommendation to EVERYONE, is that if you can, stuff every dead-air space you can with pink or blue foam. It's cheap, light and may save your life, especially if the water is colder than 60 degrees.

I've even seen guys put a bunch of milk jugs and soda bottles in dead space, duct taped together. Whatever!

But either way, if you haven't already, stop whining, and being cheap, and add some potentially life-saving flotation to your boat! Anyone's life is worth that much. How much would you spend for a doctor's visit for something not even life-threatening? I'm sure some floatation would cost only a fraction of that.

-TH
Boats:
1998 Crestliner 1650 Fish Hawk (Current Project Boat)
1995 Princecraft 16 - "Starfish 20", Evinrude 35 HP
1997 Wellcraft 24 W/A, Evinrude 200 HP Ficht
1994 Offshore CC Bay Boat, 22' - Evinrude 115 HP
1967 Ski Barge 19 C.C, 1992 Evinrude 70 HP (Future Project Boat)

txnman69
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Post by txnman69 » 25 Feb 2014, 00:54

thanks thill,
I agree, my buddy and I caught a "rouge wave" from a very inconsiderate wake board boat last summer that made us both "s*** a brick", we took on water but stayed afloat (thanks to the foam, and THIS FORUM, and many thanks to this website for the help)

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thill
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Post by thill » 25 Feb 2014, 02:46

kfa4303 » 23 Sep 2013, 09:10 wrote:...NEVER white styrofoam, which is what most older boats were made with unfortunately. The older foams used can/do soak up tons of water which sort of defeats its purpose...
Interestingly, I've never seen any of the white styrofoam get waterlogged. I've seen it turn into a million little pills, which is annoying, but never waterlogged. I recently pulled apart an old Glassmaster boat, and under the floor were long sticks of foam sitting loose- dry as could be.

Pour-in foam, on the other hand, just as often as not is completely FILLED with water.

-TH
Boats:
1998 Crestliner 1650 Fish Hawk (Current Project Boat)
1995 Princecraft 16 - "Starfish 20", Evinrude 35 HP
1997 Wellcraft 24 W/A, Evinrude 200 HP Ficht
1994 Offshore CC Bay Boat, 22' - Evinrude 115 HP
1967 Ski Barge 19 C.C, 1992 Evinrude 70 HP (Future Project Boat)

JimInMichigan
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Post by JimInMichigan » 17 Jul 2014, 18:40

Doesnt the foam board used as building material dissolve in gasoline?
FEDERAL LAW

183.114 Test of flotation materials.

(a) Vapor test. The flotation material must not reduce in buoyant force more than 5 percent after being immersed in a fully saturated gasoline vapor atmosphere for 30 days at a minimum temperature of 38 deg. C.

(b) 24-hour gasoline test. The flotation material must not reduce in buoyant force more than 5 percent after being immersed for 24 hours at 23 plus or minus 2 deg.C in reference fuel B, of ASTM D 471 (incorporated by reference, see Sec. 183.5).

(c) 30-day gasoline test. The flotation material must not reduce in buoyant force more than 5 percent after being immersed for 30 days at 23 plus or minus 2 deg.C in reference fuel B, of ASTM D 471 (incorporated by reference, see Sec. 183.5).


(d) 24-hour oil test. The flotation material must not reduce in buoyant force more than 5 percent after being immersed for 24 hours at 23 plus or minus 2 deg.C in reference oil No. 2, of ASTM D 471 (incorporated by reference, see Sec. 183.5).

(e) 30-day oil test. The flotation material must not reduce in buoyant force more than 5 percent after being immersed for 30 days at 23 plus or minus 2 deg.C in reference oil No. 2, of ASTM D 471 (incorporated by reference, see Sec. 183.5).

(f) 24-hour bilge cleaner test. The flotation material must not reduce in buoyant force more than 5 percent after being immersed for 24 hours at 23 plus or minus 2 deg.C in a 5-percent solution of trisodium phosphate in water.

(g) 30-day bilge cleaner test. The flotation material must not reduce in buoyant force more than 5 percent after being immersed for 30 days at 23 plus or minus 2 deg.C in a 5-percent solution of trisodium phosphate in water.
And
Table 183.114 - Flotation Performance Tests

NOTES:
1.The change in volume and buoyancy is measured in accordance with ASTM D-2842. The maxi mum size of a test sample shall be 6" x 6" x 3" and cut by the same method used to shape it for use in the boat.
2.Flotation material does not have to be gasoline, oil, gasoline vapor or trisodium solution-resistant if:


a. Used in manually propelled boats;

b. Installed outside the engine compartment more than 4 inches above the lowest point where liquid can collect when the boat is in its static floating position; or

c. Enclosed or encased in an enclosure that permits no more than one-quarter ounce of fresh water per hour to enter when the enclosure is submerged to a depth of 12 inches.
So if I am understanding this correctly, the building material type foam board can be used, but must be 4" above the lowest point of the boat. Giving I have 9" - 11" deep seat wells on my row boat, I could get some material in there, but not sure I'd meet the standards required by law.

So what do us old boat owners do ( mine is a late 60's/early 70's boat )?

rabbit
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Post by rabbit » 02 Mar 2015, 21:56

Building foam, pink, blue or white is probably styrofoam. Some building foam and spray in is poly isocyanurate which I don't think is marine rated. Marine foam is urethane. Gasoline will melt styrofoam in a heartbeat. Just a bit of gasoline will melt a whole lot of foam. Don't use it. Use the proper marine rated product. Yea it's too expensive but when you add up all the money you're going to spend on the boat and the cost of possible funerals, it's cheap.
Try how much styrofoam you can melt in an ounce of gas and let us know. It's going to be a lot.
Never skimp on safety.

slick
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Post by slick » 03 Mar 2015, 00:36

Can a person that removes the foam from benches weld an airtight box in their bench? Does it need to be replaced with foam? Is it possible to remove the bench, allow for batteries or whatever and weld the rest of it, then re-install the bench in the boat. These were thoughts in the back of my mind as I read the posts.

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thill
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Post by thill » 03 Mar 2015, 02:23

Even if the foam doesn't meet the requirements listed above, it is allowable 4" off the lowest point on the floor. So filling your benches with foam is still do-able.

In a boat I recently took apart, the styrofoam was wrapped tightly in what appeared to be Saran-wrap. It was an old boat, and it looked original. I wonder if that wrapping was to make it water and gas-proof, according to the guidelines posted above?

Whatever the case, it was NOT waterlogged, was NOT all disintegrated into little balls, and was obviously still very buoyant A great idea, in my opinion.

-TH
Boats:
1998 Crestliner 1650 Fish Hawk (Current Project Boat)
1995 Princecraft 16 - "Starfish 20", Evinrude 35 HP
1997 Wellcraft 24 W/A, Evinrude 200 HP Ficht
1994 Offshore CC Bay Boat, 22' - Evinrude 115 HP
1967 Ski Barge 19 C.C, 1992 Evinrude 70 HP (Future Project Boat)

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