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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 18:27 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
Boat2.JPG
So. I wanted to get into fishing from a BOAT instead of the bank. Bought a 1996 17ft Lowe aluminum, with a 1996 50hp Johnson. Shown that the motor run before hand. Hull looked good to adequate. Has flooring, front and rear fishing deck, all carpeted. 40lb Minn-Kota troller on the front. Remote steering and shift. Cant find the model number of the boat.

I got what I thought a good deal on a 50lb Minn-Kota Maxumm troller while on vacation. Brought it home, mounted it. Then decided that the 6 or 8 AWG power wires for it were not adequate, and according to the owners manual, I was correct. That manual calls for 4 AWG. I went to school to be an electrician decades ago and am familiar with the necessity of having the correct conductors. So I decided to replace them. Crap.

I ripped out all of the carpeting and drilled the rivets out of the sheet metal floor so I could pull that out and replace the wireing for the troller, and replace all the mickey mouse wireing for everything else the PO had put in. Butt splices, wire nuts everywhere. Even had THHN conductor used. Thats building wire.

Thats when I found these cracked ribs (will attempt pics). I'm waiting on an estimate to get these repaired. My questions would be:

1: What is the proper way to repair these cracks?
2: What is an adequate way to repair?
3: What, aside from slamming thru water to hard, would cause these?
4: What would have happened if I HADN'T bought that trolling motor, didn't need to change the wires and therefore never found these cracks?

Boat is used for light fishing in rivers and lakes. Roughest water is the wakes from clowns in power boats that have to move at WOT and have no respect for anyone else.

Next projects, once the ribs are fixed if the can be, replace carpeting of course, rebuild carbs, trailer work etc. I want it to at least fairly dependable and safe.
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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 08:26 

Joined: 24 May 2015, 23:01
Posts: 107
Just my thoughts on the cracks:

I think that's where I'd expect to find them.

I think that welding stiffeners between two cross members contributed to the cracking.

Rivets allow for movement, welds don't.

In an all welded boat, all the aluminium moves at the same time, in the same direction, it's kind of like one big sheet of aluminum origami in the shape of a boat.

In an all riveted boat, the different pieces can move in different directions, and have some "wiggle room".

I would guess that in welded boats, most stress cracks occur near welds. Just as your stress cracks occurred near the welds. And, in the pieces on opposite ends of the welded piece.

Doubt it was really "abuse."

I'm not a metallurgy wonk, by any stretch. But, that's what I think.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 16:12 
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Joined: 05 May 2011, 16:35
Posts: 265
Location: Texas City, Texas
Happens all the time, Iv'e fixed plenty of em, usually on wide boats. Just rewelding the cracks isnt gonna fix the problem, the ribs need to be reinforced. This is a area where boat mfg's need to use thicker materials, but that would drive the cost up. I fix em by welding 1\4" angle down the entire length of the rib. Just my 2cents worth.



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My build: http://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19816


I Pray that I May Live to Fish, Until my Dying Day.
And when it comes to my Last Cast. I then most Humbly Pray.

When in the Lord's Great Landing Net and Peacefully Asleep,
That in his Mercy I be Judged as Big Enough To keep.
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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 18:33 

Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 19:36
Posts: 640
Location: middle of NC
Hope it doesn't turn into a big job. I would have guessed #6 cu would have worked. Glad I saw this.



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16 ft Sea Nymph w/30 Johnson
14 ft Monark w/25 Merc XD sold
1994 Lowe 1605 w/50 Evinrude sold
14 ft Lone Star w/15hp Evinrude sold
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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2016, 21:46 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
Poormans Boatright wrote:
Happens all the time, Iv'e fixed plenty of em, usually on wide boats. Just rewelding the cracks isnt gonna fix the problem, the ribs need to be reinforced. This is a area where boat mfg's need to use thicker materials, but that would drive the cost up. I fix em by welding 1\4" angle down the entire length of the rib. Just my 2cents worth.


So what would be YOUR wild guess on the price of repair? I'm waiting on an estimate from a boat shop. But I don't know if that would be better than just taking it to a welder. Figuring a boat shop would have more guidance on this particular issue.


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2016, 22:07 
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Joined: 05 May 2011, 16:35
Posts: 265
Location: Texas City, Texas
Boat shop? I dont understand what you mean? A shop that works on outboards? All they are going to do is outsource the weld work to a welder/ fab shop then tack on 10% to whatever it costs them. Go n talk to a local aluminum welder n deal with him direct. As far as price goes, your kinda at his mercy, depending on how many welders are available n your area. Where I am from there is alot of compition to deal with, which is why I have to be very reasonable. Hope this helps.



_________________
My build: http://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19816


I Pray that I May Live to Fish, Until my Dying Day.
And when it comes to my Last Cast. I then most Humbly Pray.

When in the Lord's Great Landing Net and Peacefully Asleep,
That in his Mercy I be Judged as Big Enough To keep.
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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2016, 22:43 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
Yeah, it did. Thanks. 'specially that "%10" part!


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2016, 06:24 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
Still curious as to what may have happened if I hadn't found the cracks. Catastrophic failure? Slow leaks?


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2016, 06:27 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
oakchas wrote:
Just my thoughts on the cracks:

I think that welding stiffeners between two cross members contributed to the cracking.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


That plate is actually where the steering console mounts to the floor. On the other side, its to the gunwhale. Or gunnell. The side of the boat, lol.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2016, 07:51 

Joined: 21 Jul 2011, 10:31
Posts: 1093
Location: palmerton pa.
I would do as Poorman suggested, just take it to a weld shop and don't just get the crack welded but get the ribs reinforced as well. By not doing that it's liable to crack again alongside the weld if it's a stress point. You took the floor out, otherwise you wouldn't have known about the cracks, I would be willing to bet there's others out there with the same "hidden" cracks that yours has, the owners just haven't seen them yet!
Shouldn't cost that much, and like he also said, eliminate the middle man that's just going to cost you more. I just had the entire leading edge of a aluminum jet foot fixed, cost me 30 bucks at a local weld shop.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2016, 21:13 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
Got that planned for Tuesday coming up. If it works out, I'll post pics of the job.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2016, 21:19 

Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 19:36
Posts: 640
Location: middle of NC
I looked at table 310 today and saw that #6 cu thhn is good for 75 amps, #4 is good for 95 amps. I know nothing about DC loads however.



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16 ft Sea Nymph w/30 Johnson
14 ft Monark w/25 Merc XD sold
1994 Lowe 1605 w/50 Evinrude sold
14 ft Lone Star w/15hp Evinrude sold
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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2016, 22:28 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
water bouy wrote:
I looked at table 310 today and saw that #6 cu thhn is good for 75 amps, #4 is good for 95 amps. I know nothing about DC loads however.


True dat. Familiar with the NEC. I opted to go with what is called for in the minn kota owners manual for that particular motor. Yeah, it's a big honkin wire. But they're not making money off that, so there must be a reason that they specified that size. Location, temperature, voltage drop, safety. Whatever. Who knows,,,could have been a misprint. Whatever. Got 4 gage wire in it.


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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2016, 22:53 

Joined: 29 Jun 2016, 19:36
Posts: 640
Location: middle of NC
I looked around and came across a dc voltage drop calculator. It appears to make more of a difference with dc.

http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop- ... &x=43&y=14



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16 ft Sea Nymph w/30 Johnson
14 ft Monark w/25 Merc XD sold
1994 Lowe 1605 w/50 Evinrude sold
14 ft Lone Star w/15hp Evinrude sold
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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2016, 00:19 

Joined: 05 Sep 2016, 12:37
Posts: 12
water bouy wrote:
I looked around and came across a dc voltage drop calculator. It appears to make more of a difference with dc.

http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop- ... &x=43&y=14


Actually, thinking about it, the whole reason AC current was developed back in those early days was because DC generated too much heat and voltage drops along conductors. So the conductors had to be much larger and more expensive. Afterthought: since I've started this project, I've been on several different forums and have found more than a few postings re: my trolling motor wires melted. The NEC was developed for safety. Buildings were burning down all over and electricity was the prime culprit. The boating community has a code also, though I forget the name. I guess most folks think it applies to larger craft. I dunno.


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